Another thing that's bothersome. Today, I had a slight argument, or discussion with one of my fellow workers about feminism. It bothers me that there is a continual banter in the lab that pokes fun at stereotypical married relationships between a woman and a man. So what started as a joke (something that revolved around how a woman doesn't forget how a man has wronged her, and will band together with other women to see that he suffers) made me more and more uncomfortable. So when one of the guys said something to me, wanting me to somehow agree that this is the case, I said something like "you have to be careful asking for agreement from me, because i define myself as a feminist." This sparked the interest of one of the more conservative guys that I work with. (who also, consequently, is one of the more nicer guys in the lab and is easy going and makes everyone laugh, M for short). Key points from our discussion
-getting too bogged down in any "ism" runs the risk of allowing the follower to accept hatred for a certain group or sex. (I proposed this, my debater, M, agreed)
-men and women will never be equal because if a man walks alone down an ally in the middle of the night, he has a much smaller chance of getting raped than a woman (M's argument)
-feminism and masculinity rises from the individual's competitive nature *not* as a reaction to societal expectations (M)
-M expressed concern with my assertion that women should be allowed combat roles in the army side by side with men (slight tangent here: I've read many articles that states that women have a tougher time in the army from the danger of getting raped by their fellow comrades than by getting injured by "enemy" fire) his concern was that if a man might feel reluctance to depend on the physicality of his woman comrade if the fight was hand-to-hand (something that I agreed with the physical differences between the two, but suggested that there were ways to get around this)
-the freedom of speech protects one's right to offend another. (M) This statement pretty much culminated after M and I agreed that we had our differences with how we viewed women. And while I agree with the statement (and countered that it also meant I had also had the right to express my difference in opinion and to state that I was offended) It bothered me. The guys in the lab pretty much use this premise to say homophobic and sexist remarks. And that argument has interested me. The protection of hate speech via the freedom of speech clause is interesting. And because it is protected, one is left to argue what should be said and what shouldn't be said. And a should argument is horribly difficult to get through.
I'm not being clear, and am certainly not expressing well the essence of all the arguments which left me feeling ... confused and depressed. But it is interesting. I've always assumed a position of liberalism. To have it confronted again with conservatism is an interesting experience.
-getting too bogged down in any "ism" runs the risk of allowing the follower to accept hatred for a certain group or sex. (I proposed this, my debater, M, agreed)
-men and women will never be equal because if a man walks alone down an ally in the middle of the night, he has a much smaller chance of getting raped than a woman (M's argument)
-feminism and masculinity rises from the individual's competitive nature *not* as a reaction to societal expectations (M)
-M expressed concern with my assertion that women should be allowed combat roles in the army side by side with men (slight tangent here: I've read many articles that states that women have a tougher time in the army from the danger of getting raped by their fellow comrades than by getting injured by "enemy" fire) his concern was that if a man might feel reluctance to depend on the physicality of his woman comrade if the fight was hand-to-hand (something that I agreed with the physical differences between the two, but suggested that there were ways to get around this)
-the freedom of speech protects one's right to offend another. (M) This statement pretty much culminated after M and I agreed that we had our differences with how we viewed women. And while I agree with the statement (and countered that it also meant I had also had the right to express my difference in opinion and to state that I was offended) It bothered me. The guys in the lab pretty much use this premise to say homophobic and sexist remarks. And that argument has interested me. The protection of hate speech via the freedom of speech clause is interesting. And because it is protected, one is left to argue what should be said and what shouldn't be said. And a should argument is horribly difficult to get through.
I'm not being clear, and am certainly not expressing well the essence of all the arguments which left me feeling ... confused and depressed. But it is interesting. I've always assumed a position of liberalism. To have it confronted again with conservatism is an interesting experience.
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